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redinfinity
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redinfinity

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1 month ago
I had a pending refund from them on Paypal for one preorder but it looks like they cancelled my refund. Anyone else have this happen to them? Wondering what the next step is. Paypal and my bank won't help as it's a preorder from last year.
  #26792208

Lehst
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Lehst

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1 month ago
redinfinity (1 month ago) #26792208I had a pending refund from them on Paypal for one preorder but it looks like they cancelled my refund. Anyone else have this happen to them? Wondering what the next step is. Paypal and my bank won't help as it's a preorder from last year.

I found this user's response on a blog post about the whole situation-

Chahala (1 month ago) #26735337I just called PayPal about 2 refunds I had showing pending that got cancelled today and the rep said that most likely their account ran out of money. I asked how could they still refund if they had no money left and she said their system for refunds does not 100% auto update the amounts right away, and that due to disputes and other things pending PayPal might have pulled the money before the pending refunds could finish. So it may be they had the money to do the refunds they did at the time, but when others filed disputes PayPal overrode the pending refunds which fucked the rest of us that did have pending refunds. She would not give any further details about them and simply said I would have to dispute the charges.
  #26797940

Shikaree
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Shikaree

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1 month ago
For various reasons, BBB complaint, IC3 complaint, and suing them are all useless.

BBB is basically a sham, literally. IC3 won't care unless you're complaining about a criminal enterprise. You can win a suit, you won't get any money. You'll just lose more money from travel and court fees.

You are protected by PayPal and your credit card bank. They will refund you and eat the losses.
  #26800621

Archeotech
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Archeotech

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1 month ago
Yikes, just saw the news about Anime Island. Glad I didn't use them much but very shocking especially for those of you with pre-orders. To me it looks like they've gone under and probably declared bankruptcy. Not sure if you can get your money back if you paid more than 6 months back but if within the customer protection policy deadline then you're basically insured with Paypal and the bank.

I would advise that unless you really trusted the business you should never pay too far in advance so that you're protected. Anime Island is a pretty small shop so not the most secure business to be in especially as with the recession over the last decade. Sounds like they tried refunding as much as possible but just ran out of money and closed shop. I think at least they should message everyone and explain/apologize but doesn't look like that's going to happen. :/

Anyway good luck to you guys and hope you can settle most of your money.
  #26837297

Sekhmet
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Sekhmet

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1 month ago
Lehst (1 month ago) #26780894

That is the first step to filing a claim. After doing what you described, you can choose to "escalate the claim to PayPal" where they review the case. They make you contact the seller first to see if you can resolve it yourselves (sometimes that works best but obviously not in this case.)

As for your oldest order... I don't know exactly. Get some paperwork for small claims court, is my only idea, but I have no real knowledge of such things.


Thank you for the info, I've done that and will wait until tomorrow to escalate it I guess v_v I'm going to call paypal about the payment from February. Even so however, now I know to never use my paypal balance to pay for something. Always have it in your bank.
My splits - (mfc link)
My GOs - (mfc link) & (mfc link) & (mfc link)

Ai no Kusabi is getting an English dub, and I'm crying sparkles.
  #26903609

Ose_93
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Ose_93

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1 month ago
If anyone uses Navy Federal and needs to call them to place disputes for orders. Here is the information that they asked me for on the phone:

-Date of transaction
-Amount of transaction
-Expected date of delivery
-Location deliver was to be sent
-A short form - Written Statement of Unauthorized Debit*
-Receipts or any other support material

If you use a different bank, they will probably ask for something similar, though they may have a different form for you to sign.

After calling them yesterday about an order placed on September 5th, they opened the dispute right away. And when I logged in today I saw that the $129 had already been refunded into my account.

They're filing another dispute for an order placed back on July 23, 2016 via PayPal and said it will take a few days for them to research everything since it's an older order. Hopefully everything works out on this one, I'll let you all know what I hear.
  #27053211

katongmeinv
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katongmeinv

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1 month ago
Ose_93 (1 month ago) #27053211If anyone uses Navy Federal and needs to call them to place disputes for orders. Here is the information that they asked me for on the phone:

-Date of transaction
-Amount of transaction
-Expected date of delivery
-Location deliver was to be sent
-A short form - Written Statement of Unauthorized Debit*
-Receipts or any other support material

If you use a different bank, they will probably ask for something similar, though they may have a different form for you to sign.

After calling them yesterday about an order placed on September 5th, they opened the dispute right away. And when I logged in today I saw that the $129 had already been refunded into my account.

They're filing another dispute for an order placed back on July 23, 2016 via PayPal and said it will take a few days for them to research everything since it's an older order. Hopefully everything works out on this one, I'll let you all know what I hear.



For others out there with orders over 120 days read my blog: (mfc link)

It covers the dispute code for pre-orders not delivered within 120 days of expected RELEASE date.
  #27055158

Ose_93
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Ose_93

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1 month ago
ChocolateSpider just spoke to PayPal and got this update

ChocolateSpider (1 month ago) #27055741Thanks. Finally got in touch with an actual human. They are aware of the current issue with Anime Island and are said they have contacted the FBI about this situation for charges past the usual 180 limit. They said they will even help with my MHToyShop refunds that fell through the cracks. There is no substitute for communicating with an actual human. :)

I'm very happy to hear that PayPal is trying to do something about orders over 180 days. We aren't sure of the specifics yet, but if you are having issues getting the dispute going with your bank, you may want to give PayPal a call, tell them you heard about this, and ask for more information about what they need from you.
  #27056394

ChocolateSpider
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ChocolateSpider

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1 month ago
Ose_93 (1 month ago) #27056394ChocolateSpider just spoke to PayPal and got this update

ChocolateSpider (1 month ago) #27055741Thanks. Finally got in touch with an actual human. They are aware of the current issue with Anime Island and are said they have contacted the FBI about this situation for charges past the usual 180 limit. They said they will even help with my MHToyShop refunds that fell through the cracks. There is no substitute for communicating with an actual human. :)

I'm very happy to hear that PayPal is trying to do something about orders over 180 days. We aren't sure of the specifics yet, but if you are having issues getting the dispute going with your bank, you may want to give PayPal a call, tell them you heard about this, and ask for more information about what they need from you.


They told me I have to file a complaint at the FBI's Internet Complaint Center (IC3) and submit all the dispute information I use with PayPal's claim process. This is for the charges past the 180 day limit.

[ext link ]
Updated 1 month ago #27057512

Shikaree
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Shikaree

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1 month ago
ChocolateSpider (1 month ago) #27057512They told me I have to file a complaint at the FBI's Internet Complaint Center (IC3) and submit all the dispute information I use with PayPal's claim process. This is for the charges past the 180 day limit.

[ext link ]

Did PayPal let you open a PayPal dispute for payments over 180 days old?

Let's be clear here...

It is not illegal to go out of business. It is also not illegal to owe people stuff or money as a result of going out of business. FBI also has no power to make anyone pay anyone. Because AI committed no crime, this is not a criminal case, and would not be prosecuted by a government office. An IC3 complaint is meaningless.
  #27059640

ChocolateSpider
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ChocolateSpider

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1 month ago
Shikaree (1 month ago) #27059640ChocolateSpider (1 month ago) #27057512They told me I have to file a complaint at the FBI's Internet Complaint Center (IC3) and submit all the dispute information I use with PayPal's claim process. This is for the charges past the 180 day limit.

[ext link ]

Did PayPal let you open a PayPal dispute for payments over 180 days old?

Let's be clear here...

It is not illegal to go out of business. It is also not illegal to owe people stuff or money as a result of going out of business. FBI also has no power to make anyone pay anyone. Because AI committed no crime, this is not a criminal case, and would not be prosecuted by a government office. An IC3 complaint is meaningless.


Perhaps I should have given more details of what the PayPay agent told me. This is not for filing criminal charges, but for PayPal to get more information on the nature of this disputed which is past their usual 180 day limit.

Here is the process as described by the agent on the phone.

Speak to a PayPal agent and explain the details of this dispute and why it is being filed after the 180 day limit. Inform them that the transaction was for a pre-order item and it is normal for several months to pass between transaction date and expected release + shipment.

Once that information has been explained to the agent, they will then forward this information to the FBI directly on their own.

I can then contact them at the government address and explain to them the same information I have to PayPal. Then the FBI goes through their process of investigation to confirm the situation with the store's closure and items not being shipped.

Once that information in their investigation is confirmed, they send that info to PayPal.

Once PayPal has this information, they can officially override the usual 180 limit and process my refund.

In a nutshell, this is all a joint process between FBI and PayPal allowing PP to make an exception to their usual 180 day dispute limitation. PayPal just has to have official confirmation that all the details of this disputed as told by the buyer are accurate and unresolvable by the seller.
Updated 1 month ago #27061547

Lehst
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Lehst

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1 month ago
Thank you very much ChocolateSpider for giving us details. I was lucky enough not to have a transaction past 180 days, but it is a serious issue for many here. Plus I never know when this kind of info could come in handy. Thank you. If you have any relevant updates on the matter later, I'm all ears. ^_^
ChocolateSpider (1 month ago).
  #27062775

rowley1080
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rowley1080

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1 month ago
wow reading through this im really happy i didn't pay all up front. Also happy they didn't get around to charging the rest of the purchase before disappearing. The shitty part aside from losing money tho? that now im out a figure i really wanted and im positive its only available at higher prices from 3rd party brokers
  #27103556

moonstarfc
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moonstarfc

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1 month ago
Ose_93 (1 month ago) #27053211If anyone uses Navy Federal and needs to call them to place disputes for orders. Here is the information that they asked me for on the phone:

-Date of transaction
-Amount of transaction
-Expected date of delivery
-Location deliver was to be sent
-A short form - Written Statement of Unauthorized Debit*
-Receipts or any other support material

If you use a different bank, they will probably ask for something similar, though they may have a different form for you to sign.

After calling them yesterday about an order placed on September 5th, they opened the dispute right away. And when I logged in today I saw that the $129 had already been refunded into my account.

They're filing another dispute for an order placed back on July 23, 2016 via PayPal and said it will take a few days for them to research everything since it's an older order. Hopefully everything works out on this one, I'll let you all know what I hear.

Update us if you end up getting refunded for the old order. I didn't have any orders with AI but as I have Navy Federal too I'd like to know if they will refund older orders because I have some old pre-orders on TOM. (hopefully TOM doesn't go under too...)
Updated 1 month ago #27107063

Ose_93
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Ose_93

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1 month ago
moonstarfc (1 month ago) #27107063
Update us if you end up getting refunded for the old order. I didn't have any orders with AI but as I have Navy Federal too I'd like to know if they will refund older orders because I have some old pre-orders on TOM. (hopefully TOM doesn't go under too...)

Will definitely update you guys about what happens with this one (and the 3 claims I made with PP). It's the order I'm most worried about because it is over a year old.

I just called them about it yesterday and they did say that it would take a bit to process since the information for older transactions wasn't readily available. But I did get this message today to confirm they received the support files (receipt and the filled out form they asked me to send) today.

Navy Federal Response 10/12/2017:
Thank you for providing information/documentation regarding your claim. It has been attached to your dispute claim for reference. If you have any other questions or need additional assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Sincerely,
Debit Card Disputes Resolution


I'm giving them until Friday to look into this and will call them on Monday if I haven't gotten any information.
Updated 1 month ago #27107894

Shikaree
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Shikaree

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1 month ago
ChocolateSpider (1 month ago) #27061547snip
Would be interested in how this turns out.

I'm still... skeptical... about what PayPal has said. IC3 is clear in that they handle illegal activities over the internet. IC3 will also make no communication after you submit your complaint. I have a hard time believing the local police department at where AI is located will care they went out of business.

Honestly the FBI part sounds like complete B.S. (from the part of the PayPal agent). It's not the FBI's job to "investigate" whether someone went out of business. The only thing that matters is whether PayPal will open a dispute for it or not. If they want to pretend FBI is the reason why they do, more power to them.
Updated 1 month ago #27112223

adrikyn
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adrikyn

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1 month ago
Shikaree (1 month ago) #27112223ChocolateSpider (1 month ago) #27061547snip
Would be interested in how this turns out.

I'm still... skeptical... about what PayPal has said. IC3 is clear in that they handle illegal activities over the internet. IC3 will also make no communication after you submit your complaint. I have a hard time believing the local police department at where AI is located will care they went out of business.

Honestly the FBI part sounds like complete B.S. (from the part of the PayPal agent). It's not the FBI's job to "investigate" whether someone went out of business. The only thing that matters is whether PayPal will open a dispute for it or not. If they want to pretend FBI is the reason why they do, more power to them.


Yeaaaaah, I have my doubts. When I tried contacting Paypal about MHToyshop orders over 180 days, they told me to file an IC3 and absolutely nothing came of it. They didn't offer to refund my orders over 180 days though, regardless of whether or not I filed an IC3, and I did speak with an actual person.

Idk, honestly, I hope this person gets lucky and gets their money back, but it seems dubious at best.
  #27115832

Lehst
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Lehst

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1 month ago
:( oh... So maybe it won't work out...
Still thanks for all the input guys.
  #27116582

pianokid
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pianokid

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1 month ago
Shikaree It's not the FBI's job to "investigate" whether someone went out of business.
Half true. They won't investigate a possible failed business but they will investigate online merchants who don't deliver their merchandise: [ext link ]

I'd say contact PayPal, your bank, your credit card company aka Visa or Mastercard, the FBI, whoever you feel might help. Will something come of it? Who even knows. But at least you can say you made every attempt there was to do something. Or just eat the loss. At the end of the day, we all learned a lesson.
Updated 1 month ago #27123554

Chahala
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Chahala

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1 month ago
pianokid (1 month ago) #27123554Shikaree It's not the FBI's job to "investigate" whether someone went out of business.
Half true. They won't investigate a possible failed business but they will investigate online merchants who don't deliver their merchandise: [ext link ]

I'd say contact PayPal, your bank, your credit card company aka Visa or Mastercard, the FBI, whoever you feel might help. Will something come of it? Who even knows. But at least you can say you made every attempt there was to do something. Or just eat the loss. At the end of the day, we all learned a lesson.


Via that link: Non-delivery of merchandise is a scheme most often linked to Internet auction fraud, in which a seller on an Internet auction website accepts payment for an item yet intentionally fails to ship it. Sellers like these sometimes will relist the item and attempt to sell it again through a different username. This does not sound like AI, with the slow trickle of business debt probably eating at them and a slow death due to lack of funding that most likely occurred here.

As a few other posters mentioned above (and on prior pages) this is not anywhere near what happened with Anime Island. They were doing business for over 5 or 6 years, most likely processed and shipped hundreds or thousands of orders monthly, then simply must have ran out of money to keep going on. At no time do I nor many others think they started with the mindset of intentionally taking money with the thought of finally not delivering on the product 6 years later. Even at the end they used what funds they must have had and refunded numerous people as posts on this site and reddit all point to. Now sure some people's refunds got cancelled (by PAYPAL not AI according to member "Wewe" reading up on it (mfc link)) it seems due to the disputes on PayPal, PayPal froze their money that they were using to do refunds (based on others posts about this on this thread and the other 3 or more blogs out there about it) which resulted in some being unfinished. But based on their unspoken actions, they tried to refund as many people as possible in the end. That is clearly not what the link you posted is referring to at all. The IC3 is not for investigating a business that over YEARS ran out of money and went bust, the IC3 is for ones that attempt to defraud people by selling the same item multiples times and never delivering it or post an item for sale, get the funds and run off. Basically business or people who are out to defraud all customers from day 1!
Updated 1 month ago #27144983

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