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HomeForumsThread #15406

MFCAbuse of Downvote and Uninteresting

solluxcaptorsolluxcaptor3 months agoMFC

156 replies

  • 156 replies
  • solluxcaptorRegular Boarder
    solluxcaptor
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    3 months ago
    I honestly think this is an issue. It makes people not want to speak their minds, especially if their opinion is not the majority, even if they aren't in the wrong for having that opinion.

    I believe strongly that it hinders free speech on the site. It isn't fair to the members who are unjustly targeted. It enables trolling and malicious behaviour while discouraging discussion, a crucial thing in a user community orientated website.

    To be honest, at times it makes me want to stop posting too. Moderators at least please reconsider. It is doing this site no good.
  • nyugvo6Regular Boarder
    nyugvo6
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    • the worst place to buy things.
    3 months ago
    I firmly believe these interesting/uninteresting up/downvote functions are completely unnecessary and should be removed. If it makes people feel bad, it's more the reason to get rid of them.
  • tundrasRegular Boarder
    tundras
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    3 months ago
    solluxcaptor (3 months ago) #35751877It makes people not want to speak their minds, especially if their opinion is not the majority, even if they aren't in the wrong for having that opinion.
    I feel like this statement is relevant to a certain incident I witnessed on ITEM #676314. Person A didn't like how it turned out, while Person B reasoned that because it's a prize figure, Person A's expectations shouldn't be so high. Person B got a lot of upvotes. Do you think Person A would've gotten some downvotes if the function was enabled on figure entry pages?

    While Person B clearly has the "popular vote", Person A still has a right to that opinion. If their comment was downvoted to the point of being hidden, then in a way, it'd be a censoring of the statement.

    I also agree that some people can use the downvote function on users they dislike for nothing other than that reason. If you don't like an individual, block them or skip their comments. There's no reason to be going around downvoting all their posts if the downvote is not relevant to the actual content of the post itself. Doing so contributes nothing useful to the discussion.
  • SparxxorsRegular Boarder
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    3 months ago
    ney (3 months ago) #35415671it's the quickest way to express what you feel

    This site isn't facebook, and it certainly ain't reddit even though the V4 rollout totally tried to "modernize" everything. Reddit is a step up from facebook, but it has its problems with upvote/downvote that encourage laziness just like facebook. I don't even browse this site that often but I'd rather it be more like a traditional forum..
  • minix2pooRegular Boarder
    minix2poo
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    • NRW, Germany
    3 months ago • Updated 3 months ago
    If there are some people out there feeling bad with that voting function, I think an option to activate or deactivate that function might indeed help. At least having the control inyour own hand might help.

    But honestly... I think there are too many people out there nowadays who care about what others think about them or their opinion... Just remember, they are nothing else than strangers. I just say my opinion, and if others dislike it or have a different view, I can live with that.

    I mean, if there are 10 votes for uninteresting and 1 voted interesting, then you should continue saying your opinion for the 1 interested guy, instead of mentally surrender to that 10 voters for uninteresting, since that is exactly that what they want.

    Edited:It feels like, people want to tell their opinion only to get likes. But is that really worth sharing opinions with others then?
  • WanderingWastrelold cootRegular Boarder
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    3 months ago
    minix2poo (3 months ago) #35758195
    I mean, if there are 10 votes for uninteresting and 1 voted interesting, then you should continue saying your opinion for the 1 interested guy, instead of mentally surrender to that 10 voters for uninteresting, since that is exactly that what they want.
    Edited:It feels like, people want to tell their opinion only to get likes. But is that really worth sharing opinions with others then?


    Your point makes sense for things like blog entries, where both the positive and negative votes are shown. But for comments to blogs, only the sum total is shown. So if a comment is showing a value of, for example, -3, then you have no idea how many people might have upvoted. You only know that 3 more downvoted than upvoted.

    Sure, it would be great to be all noble and strong to stand up to those who only want you to shut up and go away. But if that's the only message or feedback you're getting, then why would you stay? Do you really want to try to contribute to a so-called community, when that community appears to be telling you over and over that they're not interested? And perhaps that is actually correct, and most of the people really DO want you to get the hell out....?
  • minix2pooRegular Boarder
    minix2poo
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    3 months ago • Updated 3 months ago
    WanderingWastrel (3 months ago) #35758475Your point makes sense for things like blog entries, where both the positive and negative votes are shown. But for comments to blogs, only the sum total is shown. So if a comment is showing a value of, for example, -3, then you have no idea how many people might have upvoted. You only know that 3 more downvoted than upvoted.
    Sure, it would be great to be all noble and strong to stand up to those who only want you to shut up and go away. But if that's the only message or feedback you're getting, then why would you stay? Do you really want to try to contribute to a so-called community, when that community appears to be telling you over and over that they're not interested? And perhaps that is actually correct, and most of the people really DO want you to get the hell out....?


    Ah now I even realize the problem, that comments on blogs can be downvoted too, since I usually dont read them. I was more into the interesting uninteresting voting for the main articles. So if they just show up a sum, lets say like —3, then yes, you should have the chance to see how many people upvoted aswell.

    Edited: Well, if people dont want to be up or downvoted, they can just upvote their own comments, so it will be grey and nobody can vote on it anymore.
  • solluxcaptorRegular Boarder
    solluxcaptor
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    2 months ago • Updated 2 months ago
    Sparxxors (3 months ago) #35758124This site isn't facebook, and it certainly ain't reddit even though the V4 rollout totally tried to "modernize" everything. Reddit is a step up from facebook, but it has its problems with upvote/downvote that encourage laziness just like facebook. I don't even browse this site that often but I'd rather it be more like a traditional forum..

    nyugvo6 (3 months ago) #35754655I firmly believe these interesting/uninteresting up/downvote functions are completely unnecessary and should be removed. If it makes people feel bad, it's more the reason to get rid of them.

    I agree. In the past, this site had a more forum like feeling. People would actually voice their opinions to other people instead of just pressing upvote/downvote.

    Also proof of 'uninteresting' being abused: I wrote an article and accidentally left the voting system on. Within minutes, 3 people flooded my hard work with 'uninteresting' votes. Why even get to the end of a review just to be negative? Surely if you aren't interested in the figure you shouldn't click on it at all. This is really discouraging to people like myself and others who work hard to post articles just to be met with passive aggressive-ness.

    To be honest it makes me wonder "why bother at all?" and it gives a really negative view of the community that I personally put so much effort into providing helpful or interesting content for. I spent hours writing, taking photos and editing for that article and I feel discouraged to continue thanks to this useless feature.

    At least name who has voted interesting/uninteresting like how the star voting system on photos shows names. This discourages people from abusing the system because they can be seen. Trolls shouldn't be enabled on this site.
  • solluxcaptorRegular Boarder
    solluxcaptor
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    2 months ago
    WanderingWastrel (3 months ago) #35758475Your point makes sense for things like blog entries, where both the positive and negative votes are shown. But for comments to blogs, only the sum total is shown. So if a comment is showing a value of, for example, -3, then you have no idea how many people might have upvoted. You only know that 3 more downvoted than upvoted.
    Sure, it would be great to be all noble and strong to stand up to those who only want you to shut up and go away. But if that's the only message or feedback you're getting, then why would you stay? Do you really want to try to contribute to a so-called community, when that community appears to be telling you over and over that they're not interested? And perhaps that is actually correct, and most of the people really DO want you to get the hell out....?

    Honestly this is true. It's discouraging and unnecessary.
  • migurRegular Boarder
    migur
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    2 months ago
    I always turn the upvotes/downvotes on since I want to know whether people like my reviews or not.
  • whobdaplayaRegular Boarder
    whobdaplaya
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    2 months ago • Updated 2 months ago
    This phenomenon is exactly why I rarely post much anywhere anymore.
    It's not so much being thin/thick-skinned as not wanting to bother dealing with the drama / trolls.
    Probably just a continuation of Eternal September.

    However, I do applaud you for sticking to your guns. It is a large part of what keeps this site interesting!
    (Likewise for your counterparts both here and in other online communities)
  • victorviperRegular Boarder
    victorviper
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    2 months ago • Updated 2 months ago
    solluxcaptor (2 months ago)
    At least name who has voted interesting/uninteresting like how the star voting system on photos shows names. This discourages people from abusing the system because they can be seen. Trolls shouldn't be enabled on this site.


    That's a good idea in principle, but I could see it being abused as well.

    Examples:

    "You downvoted my post, so now I'll downvote all of yours." I generally only downvote only the most uninteresting of the uninteresting posts (like poorly-written one-sentence "blogs"), but if I couldn't be anonymous, I wouldn't even bother for this reason.

    "I'm going to troll you, so I'll see who upvoted your posts and downvote all of them, too". I tend to think this would be the troll's mentality.

    Maybe a better solution would be to limit who can upvote/downvote *anything*. There would be in principle easy ways to do this (like MFC's "experience" metric under user contributions). If you contribute in some way to the community by uploading photos, writing blogs, posting comments, adding items to the database, etc., then once you reach a threshold level, you are a good enough citizen of the community to start upvoting/downvoting user contributions. If someone wants to just create a profile and start trolling people, then sadly they'd be out of luck.
  • solluxcaptorRegular Boarder
    solluxcaptor
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    2 months ago
    whobdaplaya (2 months ago) #37262709This phenomenon is exactly why I rarely post much anywhere anymore.
    It's not so much being thin/thick-skinned as not wanting to bother dealing with the drama / trolls.
    Probably just a continuation of Eternal September.
    However, I do applaud you for sticking to your guns. It is a large part of what keeps this site interesting!
    (Likewise for your counterparts both here and in other online communities)

    It's just unfortunate, I see no need to enable bad attitudes on a site that is based around community supporting it. It's only going to damage the foundation (the community) of the site in the long run.

    I hadn't heard of that term before but it was an interesting read, and thank you. I won't be going anywhere, they can waste their time and energy downvoting me all they want but they won't get me to leave.


    victorviper (2 months ago) #37314485That's a good idea in principle, but I could see it being abused as well.
    Examples:
    "You downvoted my post, so now I'll downvote all of yours." I generally only downvote only the most uninteresting of the uninteresting posts (like poorly-written one-sentence "blogs"), but if I couldn't be anonymous, I wouldn't even bother for this reason.
    "I'm going to troll you, so I'll see who upvoted your posts and downvote all of them, too". I tend to think this would be the troll's mentality.
    Maybe a better solution would be to limit who can upvote/downvote *anything*. There would be in principle easy ways to do this (like MFC's "experience" metric under user contributions). If you contribute in some way to the community by uploading photos, writing blogs, posting comments, adding items to the database, etc., then once you reach a threshold level, you are a good enough citizen of the community to start upvoting/downvoting user contributions. If someone wants to just create a profile and start trolling people, then sadly they'd be out of luck.

    This is a pretty interesting idea, I could agree with this. It would at least filter out some of the trolls although I fear some of them are hiding in plain sight among us since they can get away with it anonymously...
    I would also not mind at all if the feature was limited to paying supporters either, like apparently the downvotes on figure listings are.
  • mufifufuRegular Boarder
    mufifufu
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    2 months ago
    I disagree with this idea. For one, it's a push towards a sterilized (censored) environment, for two, expressing negativity is just important as expressing positivity, for three, "trolls" do not outweight normal people using downvotes / uninteresting normally, taking the features away because a few "trolls" used it in a way some people don't like just seems like "trolls" get put above everyone else. I'm against any thing that limits expression of opinions, I'm against silencing a channel for everyone because some people don't like what is coming out of it.
  • KuromiiHaikyuu nerdlordRegular Boarder
    Kuromii
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    2 months ago
    mufifufu (2 months ago) #37373545I disagree with this idea. For one, it's a push towards a sterilized (censored) environment, for two, expressing negativity is just important as expressing positivity, for three, "trolls" do not outweight normal people using downvotes / uninteresting normally, taking the features away because a few "trolls" used it in a way some people don't like just seems like "trolls" get put above everyone else. I'm against any thing that limits expression of opinions, I'm against silencing a channel for everyone because some people don't like what is coming out of it.
    But this suggestion isn't advocating for silence or censoring at all, in fact it is for the complete opposite. We want people to talk and express their agreements and disagreements rather than just slapping the up/downvote with no discussion.

    If someone downvotes my comment I have no idea why (same goes for upvoting), but if they were to actually write something then we can engage in discussion which is, y'know, something that people actually enjoy. For example, earlier on today I saw a completely normal, harmless comment that had a -1 rating on it. Two people had downvoted it, and I had literally no idea what the problem was (it wasn't even an opinion that was downvoted, so I genuinely don't know what the problem was). If there had been some discussion about it, there would have been no confusion.

    It just encourages people to be lazy. We are, in general, slowly losing the ability/drive to actually hold conversations any more, and I think that things like this just help it along.
  • PeanutButterRegular Boarder
    PeanutButter
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    2 months ago
    I agree with getting rid of the downvote system.

    If something is grossly wrong with a comment or blog then it should be called out in a response rather than a vote. At this point unpopular opinions and benign comments get bombed with downvotes.

    The first is just mob censorship like what happens with reddit. The second is trolling.

    If someone actually comments something offensive then the report button exists and the response for it is very fast from my experience.
  • mufifufuRegular Boarder
    mufifufu
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    • 8 months ago
    • 3
    2 months ago
    Kuromii (2 months ago) #37375051But this suggestion isn't advocating for silence or censoring at all, in fact it is for the complete opposite. We want people to talk and express their agreements and disagreements rather than just slapping the up/downvote with no discussion.
    If someone downvotes my comment I have no idea why (same goes for upvoting), but if they were to actually write something then we can engage in discussion which is, y'know, something that people actually enjoy. For example, earlier on today I saw a completely normal, harmless comment that had a -1 rating on it. Two people had downvoted it, and I had literally no idea what the problem was (it wasn't even an opinion that was downvoted, so I genuinely don't know what the problem was). If there had been some discussion about it, there would have been no confusion.
    It just encourages people to be lazy. We are, in general, slowly losing the ability/drive to actually hold conversations any more, and I think that things like this just help it along.


    That assumes ridding downvotes automatically equates to people responding more with comments. That assumption will need proof. You can just as easily imagine situation where someone disagrees with a comment but don't have the time to bother writing out a reply, so they just click downvote. On the other hand, removing the features objectively decreases numbers of ways to express oneself, especially done on purpose to skew certain kinds of expression.

    Let's put it this way.

    Leave things as is:
    downvote [available] +1
    upvote [available] +1
    comment [available] +1
    posts [available] +1

    pts: 4

    Remove downvotes:
    downvote [unavailable] +0
    upvote [available] +1
    comment [available] +1
    posts [available] +1

    pts: 3

    So that would be doing more work and getting less in return.
  • WanderingWastrelold cootRegular Boarder
    WanderingWastrel
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    2 months ago
    mufifufu (2 months ago) #37377656That assumes ridding downvotes automatically equates to people responding more with comments. That assumption will need proof.

    That's a good analysis, as far as it goes. What your analysis assumes, though, is that in either case the behavior of those who DO make posts and/or comments does not change.

    But the behavior of people has already changed. Participation has had a marked decrease. Now I will not assume that decrease is due solely to the downvoting capability. But I will also decline to assume that it has had no effect at all.

    Your analysis also seems to assume lack of malice on the part of the downvoters. But of late every comment I make is downvoted. Either I've collected a pack of haters, or pretty much everyone here is sick of me now. Given that other places I've been on the 'net in the past actually have gotten sick of me, I can not rule that possibility out.

    All I know for sure is that a comment of mine won't get downvoted if I don't make a comment. So far I've gone from three to five comments a day, to about three a month. Which get downvoted. *shrug*
  • solluxcaptorRegular Boarder
    solluxcaptor
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    • 3 years ago
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    2 months ago • Updated 2 months ago
    mufifufu (2 months ago) #37373545I disagree with this idea. For one, it's a push towards a sterilized (censored) environment, for two, expressing negativity is just important as expressing positivity, for three, "trolls" do not outweight normal people using downvotes / uninteresting normally, taking the features away because a few "trolls" used it in a way some people don't like just seems like "trolls" get put above everyone else. I'm against any thing that limits expression of opinions, I'm against silencing a channel for everyone because some people don't like what is coming out of it.
    Actually the environment is more likely to be sterilised if people with opposing opinions are silenced by downvoting (which even hides posts under a certain threshold) and infact, removing the downvotes would ENCOURAGE discussion if people had something to say instead of taking the easy way out to show disagreement.

    I'm not asking for opposing opinions or disagreements to be silenced, I'm asking for it to at least spark conversation and not allow people to cowardly hide behind passive aggressive voting systems.
  • solluxcaptorRegular Boarder
    solluxcaptor
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    • 3 years ago
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    2 months ago • Updated 2 months ago
    PeanutButter (2 months ago) #37376182I agree with getting rid of the downvote system.
    If something is grossly wrong with a comment or blog then it should be called out in a response rather than a vote. At this point unpopular opinions and benign comments get bombed with downvotes.
    The first is just mob censorship like what happens with reddit. The second is trolling.
    If someone actually comments something offensive then the report button exists and the response for it is very fast from my experience.


    Exactly my thoughts. I'm all for discussion, I'm not in agreement with mob attitudes and trolling.
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